Rightly Dividing the Scriptures

Nathan replies:
Apologies, the verse in question was 1 Pet 3:20-21 which states quite clearly that baptism saves.

 

 

"²⁰ to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, ²¹ and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

 

God Bless

Nathan

 

 

 

 

 

AND EVEN IF THERE WERE AND EVEN IF IT SAID WHAT YOU CLAIM [DESPITE BEING A MORAL IMPOSSIBILITY]... JOHN 3:5 QUOTES JESUS CHRIST IN THE 'first person":

 

John.3
[5] "Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

And Baptism saves up to the point of being BAPTIZED. Any and all sins after Baptism recquire the Catholic Sacrament of Confession.

 

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17

"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

John.20 Verses 20 to 23

" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"

 

And these friend are the WORDS of God Himself!

 

God Bless,

Pat

From: Robin <rdnuclearmed@...>
To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Catholic Questions Re: Baptising the unborn

 

j.s said:

2ndly, per Paul and Peter and John and Christ's teaching: baptism (genuine baptism, which is in and by faith) does not save from hell

2 Pet 3:21 says: " and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you"

 

God Bless
Nathan

 

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM, j.s299 <j.s299@...> wrote:

 

 
Contrary to 'baptism' of babies: faith in the apostles' teaching, in their New Testament, is volitional. 'Baptism' of babies, or other nonvolitional baptism, does and means nothing. It accomplishes nothing. And can regenerate, or advance, the 'bapized' one, zero.

2ndly, per Paul and Peter and John and Christ's teaching: baptism (genuine baptism, which is in and by faith) does not save from hell.
Rather faith that Jesus is God. Personal contact of, and believing into, the risen Jesus, does.

Baptism saves (and thus is necessary, and commanded) in other respects. Namely: a saving from the world. Thru this public identification with Christ.

Like Limbo, or other nonbiblical odd Catholicism teachings, 'baptism' of babies has its historical, and even well-intentioned origins. But is mistaken and distorts the apostles' teaching, and historically has led to confusions and crimes. For example the persecution and execution of believers in later centuries who got baptized after they believed into Jesus. a) as if were proper to harm or kill people in matters of faith! and b) as if they were wrong.

--- In catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com, "Francine" <ftaylor1960@...> wrote:
>
> This is something that has troubled my mind for some. I brought it up with a Catholic priest once and I thought the poor fellow was going to have an apoplectic attack, he was so offended at the idea. It really bewildered me, and I haven't dared to bring it up with anyone else until now.
>
> First of all, a brief background sketch, so you know where I'm coming from. I was raised Catholic, went through some bad emotional times in college, turned very briefly to, I guess you could call it witchcraft or wiccanism or new age, then God dragged me back to himself (it was all Him, none of me in my salvation) and now I'm a Christian, though not strongly identifying with any particular branch. Generic Protestant, I guess.
>
> There are over a million babies dying every year just in the US alone of abortions. I understand according to Catholic doctrine these babies go to Limbo? This is just one of the points on which I disagree with the faith of my childhood. But, for the sake of this discussion let us assume it as a given.
>
> Why isn't anyone trying to baptise these poor innocents before they are killed? Or has it been tried and I just haven't heard about it? It seems like a no-brainer to me. Is there any rule that says a person cannot be baptised if they cannot be physically touched by a priest? If a priest and an unbeliever were in non-adjacent prison cells, say in the some country where Christianity is hated, and the unbeliever was about to be executed and he asked the priest to baptise him, could it be done? Even if they couldn't touch?
>
> I know that consent is not required, else you couldn't baptise infants. An unborn infant is no less a child than a born one. So why have I never heard this idea even discussed? I'm not sure how bad Limbo is, but to hear my parents talk it's a horrible fate.
>
> It has led me to wonder if anyone who might otherwise have brought up the idea was suppressed, because if it was brought out that you could baptise an unborn baby before you killed him/her and that the child would go straight to heaven, it would take the "sting" out of the Catholic objection to abortion. It would still be a sin of disobedience against God on the part of the mother and doctor, as any sort of murder is, but not a tragedy to the infant.
>
> Has anyone some insights for me on this? I really didn't want to offend any more priests (probably should have brought it up to a Jesuit, my parents consider them borderline heratics in their "devotion to rational thought"), but I genuinely want to know what Catholic doctrine has to say on the subject.